Curse

Cirian · Mar 20, 2006, 02:12 PM // 14:12

I was quite happy with their restoration magic. I think some people will be happy to have a Ri/ instead of a Mo/, and maybe more monks will be able to run as smiters soon too

Silent Kitty · Mar 20, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirian

I was quite happy with their restoration magic. I think some people will be happy to have a Ri/ instead of a Mo/, and maybe more monks will be able to run as smiters soon too

They will ask you if you are healer, defender or smiter. Tell them you are smiter, and you're instantly kicked from the party.

Awesome Nuke · Mar 20, 2006, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Kitty

As monk you can have 20 healing and 20 divine power, but when the party doesn't do any damage, you're kinda useless. You can't help them, and healing them doesn't exactly makes their day either. Without a good damage dealing party, a healer is bloody useless.

Hmm, thats pretty much the most useless post in this thread

No offence, but that makes no sense, any class placed alone versus a group of mob cant survive long ; or if he survives, he wont kill em.

Wind of Horus · Mar 20, 2006, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Yeah one major thing is... When people adress the monk in their group they actually say "the monk" or "monk"

but when adressing the tank or the necro they call him/her by their actual name or the first or last part of their name. I have never heard anyone say "the tank is afk" They will say "so and so is afk"

We are people too.

wolfe2dale · Mar 20, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

This thread is an absolutely fascinating read...prick the surface of GW & all the pus & bile just bubbles out doesn't it?

Why is it that people just can't play together for fun without all the insults & recriminations?

For my part, this is why I will never play as part of a PUG, too many of them are like the posters on this thread.

They either have to low an opinion of other players, or far too high an opinion of themselves...

Thank God my guild can cover any & all missions without the requirement of playing with people I don't know.

kryshnysh · Mar 20, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Before my guild duties took me away from it, I used to spend half my time monking for PuGs in random spots. Since most of my good friends in GW love monking, here is what I have gleaned from my own experiences and those of my friends.

1) Nobody is allowed to be a total jerk, monks included. If a person is rude to the monk, they probably should die for their stupidity, unless that would be catastrophic for the group as a whole. If someone thinks the monk is doing a good job, they should speak up in response to insults. A group not speaking up for long enough when the monk is doing a fine job and someone else is being a big enough pain, is grounds for a monk to leave IMO. Everyone wants to have fun, monk included; enough insults without any compliments ruins the fun.

2) Monks are a) pushy, b) whiny, c) some combination of a and b, or d) neither. If you run into too many of a, b, or c (generally an overload of just one of the types rather than all three in general) when not monking, consider that part of it might be you (or the types of people you typically group with) are being as painful in your own way.

3) PuGs often complain about monks. The more they complain, the more likely you are a) not filtering enough (patience is the best filter; in the ring of fire, 4-5 minutes of waiting after an invite does wonders for eliminating impatient groups), or b) need to work on your monking. Only bad groups should test your monking skills, even in the worst of PvE.

4) Lots of monks are bad monks. Problem is, most people can only tell by whether people die, and thats not really as much a function of the monk as the entire group in many places. A bad monk can heal THK fine with a good group, and a good monk can't save a (really) bad group in Bloodstone Fen.

5) If a monk is bad and you can pinpoint how (overhealing, aggro management, etc.), they will often respond to a polite and considerate whisper or few explaining a bit on how to avoid said problem. They won't get better immediately, but it does help (most of the time for me at least - if not for you, see #2).

My personal view on complaints is that 2-3 monks + the rest of the group is enough to complete any group provided sufficiently powerful individuals (you don't "need" tanks as much as you "need" monks). Thus complaints against monks should be higher than against any other subset (and roughly equivalent to everyone else together).

floplag · Mar 20, 2006, 04:44 PM // 16:44

no offense to the legit monks out there .. and there are many, but when other monks started charging for thier service in a PUG for missions. the class as a whole lost alot of credibility. this is unfair to those that play the game right and dont do these things, but they have stained the rep of all monks. that combinewd with the farming scourge has me to the point where ill be deleting my monk this week for the preview event as i want no part of being a monk anymore

felinette · Mar 20, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnoopJeDi

I've also heard of people asking what 33/11 is before inviting. The answer is 3. Simple things like these can quickly show you who's friendly and a nice player, and who's the festering prepubescent worm.

If someone asked me what 33/11 is, I'd probably fail because I'd figure it's a game term for some character build or something like that (like a 55 monk), not just a simple math equation. So I'd be like, "Hmm...haven't heard of that build before."

Right now, I've got a character on the go for every profession except necro. The monk is a different ball game from all the rest. With the others, nobody pays all that much attention to what you're doing as long as you don't do something completely stupid. With the monk, what you're doing is on everybody's minds. They have expectations.

I've not had any problems in game. I've monked for good and bad groups. Good groups don't tax the monk and I can usually keep everyone healed, or at the very least, get them through a fight and then rez. With bad groups, I could have 200 energy and one of the idiots would still die because s/he's aggroing everything in sight and sprinting ahead without giving anyone on the team time to recover energy.

I think people rely too much on monks. As someone else in the thread said, it's a team. When everyone works together, everyone looks good. When they don't, people die, and unfortunately I guess some players think that means the monk was bad, when really, it's them.

I have to say that out of all of the professions, I find playing the monk a lot of fun, but also stressful, especially when the group relies on you too much. I haven't played my monk for a couple of weeks, but this thread has revived my interest. Maybe I'll monk a mission tonight.

One pet peeve: when the group leader recruits someone who's at a much lower level than everyone else. I know that I'll spend 80% of my time babysitting that person at the expense of the more valuable group members, but if I let them die, I'll be blamed and receive aggro for it. So group leaders: don't recruit a level 10 when everyone else is level 18+. Not only will the person not likely pull their weight, but the monk is going to have to spend too much time and energy on them. Either that, or they'll have a 60% DP a quarter of the way through the mission. Yeah, I suppose I could whisper the leader and ask them to kick the person, but I'm not one of those monks that throws my weight around.

Matsumi · Mar 20, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

My experience as a monk has gone both ways, i've seen some really bad monks and some equally or better monks. One example I have from going out to the ring of fire missions is...

I get invited to a group that I'm selective of, then they invite a second monk, we go out, and right away I notice that the other monk keeps burning through their energy almost immediately with every battle. I think, "Ok, I'll just keep healing the group and keep them going through the battle." Well, the monk also spams their energy contantly after they quickly burn through it before the battle is even over. She/He seems to be getting really irritated that we don't stop fighting right after the first energy spam, and tell the mobs to take a break and go eat a sandwich or something. Being a Mo/Me I had some inspiration points and didn't really need them because my monk was fine for energy without, I mention to the other monk (since she had the same secondary), "Maybe you should try to use a leech signet or something if you keep running out of energy that often." No response. As the mission progresses a little, the energy spams continue, and the monk gets more and more frustrated and quits. Well, no hard feelings, I'm still here, and doing fine on energy, so we continue and finish the mission (abbadons mouth I believe).

Where I have met an equal if not better monk was in tombs, we both had everyone's health almost to full the entire time, and afterwards when we got the greens, I had a couple warriors ask me if they could put me on their friends list, because me and the other monk were going to be their main monks to call on for other things. I said sure

and proceeded to do other things afterwards. My point is, there are alot of really impatient frustrated monks out there I think that just don't take alot of time to experiment with what could make their jobs alot easier (as probably already mentioned). Getting really upset at the first insult or whatever and stop functioning as a team member is wrong though, or pouting. A big thing I pay attention to is energy cost of the heal, what type of heal it is, what's the recharge/cast time of the heal, how much it heals for, etc. I always have the 5 energy heals on me, if something I use calls for 15 (sometimes even 10) energy it's a last resort, unless everyone is doing fine, or that necro needs a breaze for saccing purposes. I'm not just talking about one situation here though, sometimes enchantments=bad, other times you can get away with a few here and there. If I'm ever in a group where I find myself working off of 5 energy, I usual think it's not such a good group, or somebody is doing something wrong, but since I can't stop to look around most of the time, I can only tell by health bars what they're up to. If your getting gangbanged, maybe you should knock it off, and stay with only a few mobs at a time. I've played all types of characters before, and it helps to know how they work. The only trash-talk I've recieved is from rambo elementalists, or warriors, and I can deal with quite a bit of it from hearing it contantly in FPS games, but when it comes down to be outright insulting, sorry bub, I'm here to have fun, stop complaining like your drunk or high off something and do a better job yourself.

wsmcasey · Mar 20, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

I only use my monk for farming now. I never really had problems in groups when I did play healing or prot monk, but I just can't stand playing the game looking at red life bars the whole time (its utterly boring beyond belief!). I agree that monks lost credibility when the "monk for hire" thing started a few months ago. I mean really, if your going to act like a prostitute and beg for money to perform services, then expect to be treated like a prostitute. I guess this attitude spills over to the monks that are not whoring their services.

Str0b0 · Mar 20, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesome Nuke

I dont see why you're getting mad for something like that. Hey we never forced you to check this thread out. Just dont look it up when it'll be updated and your good to go. Fact is Monks dont get the same treatment as any class because its a primary support class and if they mess up, the mission might very well end. Which isnt the case for a nuker, for example.

No I repeat..no one person is ever responsible for group failure. Monks are not necessary. You might have noticed that you kind of heal on your ownif left alone for long enough. That means with careful aggro management and good team work you could go through ANY mission in the game without needing a monk, not even a hench monk. Sure it would take longer and be aggravating to the point of making uyou want to scream but monks are not necessary and therefore are not entitled to any special treatment. What I get mad about is this is not an isolated incident here. Every other day someone is whining about how their monk gets no respect or they are staging a goofy in game protest. It's sickening to see how many people here have tissue thin skin. See if I miss it here then I catch it in game and vice versa. No matter where I go monks are whining and frankly they need to knock it off.

Fire Childe · Mar 20, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

What str0b0 said.

Im amazed that so many people still think that in this team game, blame is attributable to one person. Everytime my team has failed in pvp or pve it is a result of poor communication and coordination. Even if someone forgets or neglects to use a skill that is vital for the survival of the team, its something that should have been cleared beforehand, or on voicecomm or whatever. Its always preventable.

The sooner people wake up and realise that the responsibility for screwing up is collective, the better. You can do pretty much every area of the pve game without a monk. Same as you can do pretty much every area of the game without a Warrior. Or a Ranger. Or any class. In some areas though it bloody well makes things faster and a damn sight easier if you have one of these dudes along for the ride. But thats the whole point of playing in a team in guild wars. Knowing your role in the group and fulfilling that role. Others in the group will be doing the same to cover your back.

So many of these stupid problems arise when certain people think their role is somehow more important than anyone elses (not naming any names but DAHL reeeally strikes me as one of those). The whole point of working as a team is pool resources to overcome a challenge you could not overcome individually - and if you want to keep the gears of that machine turning smoothly, you better make sure you dont antagonise the people in your party that may potentially save your ass in the near future.

So if you are a monk relying on enchantments to survive you can thank your mesmer for migraining an enemy pinky and interrupting that oh so nasty shatter enchant. Or you can thank your warrior for hamstringing that OoB/Vampiric Touch/Touch of Agony necro/warrior thats steaming towards you in RA. And you can thank your monk for sticking reversal on you when a killing blow hits you on the noggin and you are pretty low on hp. And you can thank mr battery necro for giving you extra pips of regen when your mana is crazy low and (whoops) you need to cast something fast or someone is going down.

Doeesnt matter what class you are. Respect the people you play with. Fulfill your role in the group to the best of your ability. Have fun. There isnt really anything else to add.

Garreth MacLeod · Mar 20, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Wow, some really good posts here. Clearly ones with a lot of thought behind them. I'm not going to reiterate what was said because I don't think it's necessary. Matsumi, Str0b0, and FireChilde...well said.

My third character is a monk and I really enjoyed the difference in the game play. I've now played a ranger, warrior, and monk completely through the game. With a necro in the desert.

When I played ranger, I relied on henchies mostly (back in the day when rangers rarely got invites to groups). As a warrior, I tried to be as self-sufficient as I could be to put as little pressure on the monk. As a monk, I split my game time between pugs (prot/heal build) and henchies (smite/BM build). And I have enjoyed all 3 equally, although in different ways.

I did not find monking to be stressful. Maybe that's because I'm easy going in real life. If someone died in the middle of battle, they were rezzed after the battle (although sometimes another party member rezzed them mid-battle after which they got as much healing from me as I could spare). Did I get yelled at when someone died? You know, I really don't remember that well. Maybe, but it wasn't really something to get worked up about. It's a game and I don't know those people in real life. At the end of the day, I turn off the game and go back to my family.

Moa Bird Cultist · Mar 20, 2006, 11:31 PM // 23:31

The reason you dont see smiters in pugs is simply because we know better than to try and get into one. Thats what having a really close guild is for

Seriously though, I use my smiter for FoW runs mostly at the moment. She's easily my current favourite character. In a FoW group in europe, people really dont have any problem taking smiters because of the obvious advantage against the undead and most FoW groups are level headed enough to just get on with it instead of bickering because 'the nub monk dint heal us'

The prevalent point though is, monks deserve any respect they get, because they contribute a very important part to any team. Even poor Mhenlo, Alesia and Lina deserve a lot more respect than they get - after all, they keep you alive well enough, it's just the measure of the AI's competence is not the AI itself, rather the person or people wielding it. All in all, Healing and Protector Monks deserve the credit of most important member of the team, because without them, said team would be struggling REAL quick. I know missions are doable without a healer, but having one makes it so much easier for the party. I recently did Aurora Glade on my warrior/ranger (I had skipped it and run to Henge by foot long ago,) and the party of 6 were the most unrealistic sort out there. We almost ended up taking a lvl 14 W/Mo as our healer untill I put my foot down. Eventually, despite my protests of 'if we're taking a healer, take the hench, not some /mo secondary who has no idea how to heal and only has 2 healing skills, one of which is mending' they got a R/Mo who was exactly that. The second problem with the group was that they were all hell bent on doing the bonus. Unfortunately for them, not one of them actually knew it. So we went and did the mission. It was easy in the end, as having an ascended tiger warrior makes the enemies in a low level mission like that look weak, besides, I had my Sakura with me to tank for the group

And in the end, despite the ranger who was supposedly healing everyone running off and almost getting killed every time, we made it through the mission, without a monk and without any deaths. But boy was it a pain and it reminded me of the reason I dont do pugs anymore...

Maybe I've been lucky with my monk though, I dont get any grief from anyone, (probably because I'm always with 2 or 3 guildies and theyd rip the throats out of anyone who insulted a fellow guildmate

jk ) and I really enjoy playing smiting and support. Anyone who knows me will know that all my other characters are melee based, even my ele, so playing a ranged signet build is a big change and one i have enjoyed immensely.

lg5000 · Mar 20, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Hmm... took my healer out for a spin last night to UW (together with my partner who was going prot and a 3rd monk who was smiting) only to have made the fatal mistake of having a trapper in the team who tried to trap the aataxes way too close to the wars. Ok, it was one of those disaster groups where among traps and wars pulling back and letting aataxes play with casters, firestorm made an appearance...

Anyway, what got me is that me was that one of the dead players demanded to be ressed. After a while, I realised that the other person wasn't going to res, so.. rebirthed him only for the next aatax to play with us.. which resulted in the previously dead person screaming for heals.

He got to hear what I thought of it after he died again. Rebirth wipes your energy, why do people not realise that and give monks (and others using that skill) time to regain energy?

LouAl · Mar 21, 2006, 01:09 AM // 01:09

This thread is funny. People complain about not getting enough love, well I agree wholeheartedly with wsmcasey. Monks selling their healing forced people to look at monks in a different light (a red light?).

As for what should be done about it, nothing.

I have monked almost exclusively with PuGs. I found that when someone runs too far away and dies and then yells at me, the rest of the group acts like that person is in the wrong. It could be the cool silvery orange tatoos that make people respect my monk, but I think that when I don't treat all of them like jerks they all tend to treat me well also.

There is an exception to this. The buttwads that treat everyone badly will always treat you like a pile of garbage, no matter how nice you are to them. If you can't take people treating you unfairly...well then I am profoundly sorry because you will always be treated unfairly and will probably not go far in life as you will be consumed with what others are doing to you.

/end sermon

Captain Arne Is PRO · Mar 21, 2006, 01:15 AM // 01:15

THK district 1....

"Monk for hire 10k per person per party"

Russell.Crowe · Mar 21, 2006, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Well since I read the "feel sorry for mesmers thread," I figured that I would read this one too. When I play my monk, party members worship the ground I walk on because I joined their group =P. This thread couldn't be farther from the truth. From my experience, monks are generally the first to leave a group and the biggest jerks (although warriors are a close second). They also tend to leave your group if you don't get enough members like 30 seconds after they join. After the monk leaves, everyone else leaves and causes the search to begin all over again. I'm not stereotyping monks, however I am just saying what I know by experience.